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a_shen"Yet with every day something became clearer, and this must be stated on behalf of all of us today: the 8th of May was a day of liberation. It liberated all of us from the inhumanity and tyranny of the National-Socialist regime.
Nobody will, because of that liberation, forget the grave suffering that only started for many people on 8 May. But we must not regard the end of the war as the cause of flight, expulsion and deprivation of freedom. The cause goes back to the start of the tyranny that brought about war. We must not separate 8 May 1945 from 30 January 1933.
...we commemorate the six million Jews who were murdered in German concentration camps. We commemorate all nations who suffered in the war, especially the countless citizens of the Soviet Union and Poland who lost their lives. As Germans, we mourn our own compatriots who perished as soldiers, during air raids at home, in captivity or during expulsion. We commemorate the Sinti and Romany gypsies, the homosexuals and the mentally ill who were killed, as well as the people who had to die for their religious or political beliefs. We commemorate the hostages who were executed. We recall the victims of the resistance movements in all the countries occupied by us. As Germans, we pay homage to the victims of the German resistance – among the public, the military, the churches, the workers and trade unions, and the communists. We commemorate those who did not actively resist, but preferred to die instead of violating their consciences.
...The compulsory migration of millions of Germans to the West was followed by the migration of millions of Poles and, in their wake, millions of Russians. These are all people who were not asked, people who suffered injustice, people who became defenceless objects of political events and to whom no compensation for those injustices and no offsetting of claims can make up for what has been done to them. Renouncing force today means giving them lasting security, unchallenged on political grounds, for their future in the place where fate drove them after the 8th of May and were they have been living in the decades since. It means placing the dictate of understanding above conflicting legal claims. That is the true, the human contribution to a peaceful order in Europe which we can provide."
http://www.lmz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Medienbildung_MCO/fileadmin/bibliothek/weizsaecker_speech_may85/weizsaecker_speech_may85.pdf
(президент Германии, Рихард Вайцзеккер, речь 8 мая 1985 - он умер несколько дней назад)
Nobody will, because of that liberation, forget the grave suffering that only started for many people on 8 May. But we must not regard the end of the war as the cause of flight, expulsion and deprivation of freedom. The cause goes back to the start of the tyranny that brought about war. We must not separate 8 May 1945 from 30 January 1933.
...we commemorate the six million Jews who were murdered in German concentration camps. We commemorate all nations who suffered in the war, especially the countless citizens of the Soviet Union and Poland who lost their lives. As Germans, we mourn our own compatriots who perished as soldiers, during air raids at home, in captivity or during expulsion. We commemorate the Sinti and Romany gypsies, the homosexuals and the mentally ill who were killed, as well as the people who had to die for their religious or political beliefs. We commemorate the hostages who were executed. We recall the victims of the resistance movements in all the countries occupied by us. As Germans, we pay homage to the victims of the German resistance – among the public, the military, the churches, the workers and trade unions, and the communists. We commemorate those who did not actively resist, but preferred to die instead of violating their consciences.
...The compulsory migration of millions of Germans to the West was followed by the migration of millions of Poles and, in their wake, millions of Russians. These are all people who were not asked, people who suffered injustice, people who became defenceless objects of political events and to whom no compensation for those injustices and no offsetting of claims can make up for what has been done to them. Renouncing force today means giving them lasting security, unchallenged on political grounds, for their future in the place where fate drove them after the 8th of May and were they have been living in the decades since. It means placing the dictate of understanding above conflicting legal claims. That is the true, the human contribution to a peaceful order in Europe which we can provide."
http://www.lmz-bw.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Medienbildung_MCO/fileadmin/bibliothek/weizsaecker_speech_may85/weizsaecker_speech_may85.pdf
(президент Германии, Рихард Вайцзеккер, речь 8 мая 1985 - он умер несколько дней назад)
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no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 04:31 pm (UTC)есть видеозапись,
Date: 2015-02-01 04:48 pm (UTC)там ему аплодирует довольно заметная часть бундестага - так что его многие поддерживали (ещё одна разница!)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 07:08 pm (UTC)Цимес тут вот в чём, ровно на 4-33 камера смотрит справа налево (если считать ориентацию по докладчику). Традиционно справа (относительно докладчика) сидят правые (по модулю того, что это не стандартное заседание, а типа праздничное for some definition of праздника), и из них почти никто в этом месте не хлопает. К сожалению, я не могу распознать лиц, хреновое было телевидение в прошлом веке.
А жыр в том, что товарищ президент-то и был из тех самых ХДС-ХСС, своему-то могли и похлопать, а?
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 05:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 05:57 pm (UTC)российские
Date: 2015-02-01 06:00 pm (UTC)Re: российские
Date: 2015-02-01 06:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 06:02 pm (UTC)ага, ща, ну товарищ Трурль, где ваш цинизм?
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 06:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 06:56 pm (UTC)А что, в ФРГ после 1975, скажем, года публиковались карты с восточной границей, размеченной по состоянию на 1939 год?
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 06:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 07:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 07:09 pm (UTC)так это описывают сегодняшние комментаторы
Date: 2015-02-01 06:58 pm (UTC)Re: так это описывают сегодняшние комментаторы
Date: 2015-02-01 07:03 pm (UTC)Но даже если признать процитированный Вами комментарий верно отражающим обстановку и атмосферу, существует изрядная дистанция между описанием "речь развеяла туманную обстановку ползучего ревизионизма" и "речь вызвала аццкий шок".
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 07:29 pm (UTC)Особенно хорошо он пойдёт, когда вам предложат цытату из не-иностранцев, и вы отмахнётесь от неё незнанием языка.
Давайте потренируем это блестящее умение, вот вам статья из википедии http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zum_40._Jahrestag_der_Beendigung_des_Krieges_in_Europa_und_der_nationalsozialistischen_Gewaltherrschaft (уж извините, что такой длинный заголовок, дикие люди, дикий язык)
no subject
Date: 2015-02-01 07:34 pm (UTC)Уже типа заменил, так что я напустил на предложенную Вами википедическую статью гугль-переводчик. И знаете что самое забавное он мне показал? "The speech was extraordinary response and overwhelming support at home and abroad."
no subject
Date: 2015-02-10 01:08 pm (UTC)